Quote: Kumz: but then again, god already KNEW this would happen...cz he's all knowing. So does this mean god is ignoring yours and many there's plea to save us from such anguish?

Quote: outlaw: Well, that's the first issue Kumz has raised i mean. She wanted to know if her charitable deeds are more important in the eyes of god than her unIslamic beliefs. And my question was whether it's immoral to judge beliefs over actions, because i think it should be. I was totally on topic.
Secondly, you continue to ignore all my posts about eternal torture for not believing, which is again a profoundly evil concept, not worthy of a supreme being.

Quote: outlaw: Just for the record, i didn't bring adultery and fornication into the AIDS discussion. Looks like you are clearly saying in the above post that no undeserving person ever gets AIDS. But we just proved that wrong with the child example, at which point you did a volte face and blamed AIDS on Science. This is what i had meant by the double standard.

Quote: outlaw: Would you not agree that a patient and merciful being can never, under any circumstances, send people to hell?

Quote: outlaw: Well, whose plan was Iblis?

Quote: outlaw: God makes Iblis. Iblis makes homosexuality. God does nothing to stop Iblis. So obviously God approves of what Iblis has done. In other words, God approves of homosexuality.

Quote: outlaw: What insult? And no you haven't answered the one about the profound immorality of eternal torture.

Quote: outlaw: Man, i dont even know where to begin. I guess at this point i have to stop to preserve my sanity. I just don't understand how you manage to put all those threats of hell and the words "patient and merciful" in the same sentence. SO much wrong with that on so many levels. That just makes me sad. You're forced to love a god that you are also supposed to fear. That's the essence of sado-masochism. The essence of a master-slave relationship. Just..sad.

Quote: outlaw: But you see God set in motion a plan that facilitated all those behaviors. Free will was his idea we didn't ask for it, did we? And if you're going to argue that god is omniscient, then he knew well in advance giving us free will WILL result in all those behavious he dislikes. He can't blame us for that now

Quote: Izaguirre: Allah created Iblis with free will as He created you and I. Its was the will of iblis to disobey Allah. Just like man too also disobey Allah. If it was the will of Allah for you to disobey Him, He wont have sent hundreds of thousands of prophets to warn us.

Quote: haris: indonesia is muslim majority nation.. But it is not an Islamic nation..

Quote: Izaguirre: Did you read the story of prophet Job??? whom was grieviously sick for most part of his life? That was a test for him. How about the test other prophets met? other nations? Yep indonesia is the worlds largest muslim country but they've remained with their Lord after the disaster.
secondly Allah allows nature to run its course and He doesnt alter it. Thus you can view it as a test for the people and you can also view it as completely natural... The people of Japan arent muslims, are they?

Quote: outlaw: I'm actually glad you are religious. Since you said in an earlier post that its the fear of hell which keep you from becoming a cannibal. I woudln't want to take that fear away and unleash a cannibal.

Quote: outlaw: Wait a minute, God EXPECTS? If you are omniscient and already know what's going to happen, it's foolish to expect otherwise. God creates Iblis with prior knowledge that he wont bow to Adam, and he still expects him to do it? Doing something that God hasn't already foreseen is impossible, because that would mean God's foreknowledge was wrong. And God can't be wrong. He expects us to do the impossible?

Quote: Kumz: I've read somewhere that Allah forgave a prostitute simply because she removed her shoe,fetched water using it from a well and gave the water to a dog dying in thirst. Pls be kind enough to explain. Thanks.

Quote: Kumz: See....now if god knew our past,present and future, why send prophets to preach? Ok say that that's how he communicated with the people. But then why stop at Muhammad? And the quran mentions that Jesus was a prophet. But obviously god wouldn'tve known,before sending him, that ppl are going to believe him to be the son of god. And by sending so many prophets and books, shouldn't he have known that he himself would create wars and hatred among his dear servants?

Quote: Kumz: It all comes down to the one fact. Why create people at all and make them go through the hardship if life,when he already knew everything? Surely we're not lego people for him to build and play with for his and his angel's amusement?and then after all that,he puts only "whom he wills" into heaven.

Quote: -DeMoN_OvErLoRd-: Oh another magical test, and Pakistan and everybody else who is whacked and killed by the same almighty God its just a silly little test to see if they remain faithful? So god says hmmmmm...let me see how many people can i kill today..100,000 or 200,000 and lets see if they remain faithful!! Absolute nonsense and absurdity..and totally illogical. And nowhere did i say anything about just Muslim nations dude, so Go back and read what i said. The same God you worship kills and kills happily and enjoys eternal torture..what sort of God likes doing those things? Have an answer do you? Im sure you'll do your best.