So says the book
Kumz 2011/04/06 19:33
Kumz 2011/04/06 19:33
This topic is closed.
2:177 of the quran mentions that the virtuous are those who, give away their wealth to relatives,orphans,etc. Also those who show patience in hardship and adversity,and in times of distress.
It goes on to say that such are true believers,and such are god fearing.
It goes on to say that such are true believers,and such are god fearing.
Kumz 2011/04/06 19:40
As a Buddhist, I've always been thought to give to those who need. In fact, we give alms on my grand parent's and my mother's death anniversaries and birthdays every year. But I am not a believer of any god,nor am I fearful of one.
As a Buddhist, I've always been thought to give to those who need. In fact, we give alms on my grand parent's and my mother's death anniversaries and birthdays every year. But I am not a believer of any god,nor am I fearful of one.
Kumz 2011/04/06 19:47
I dont wish to stir any arguments here.so pls refrain from talking senseless and off topic. A student of mine gifted me a copy of the quran and this is the only place i can get help to clear things for me.
I dont wish to stir any arguments here.so pls refrain from talking senseless and off topic. A student of mine gifted me a copy of the quran and this is the only place i can get help to clear things for me.
DotmonKing 2011/04/06 21:47
I can ascertain that Qur'an 2:177 excludes you with the words in the beginning of the verse.
2:177 translated by malik
Righteousness is not whether you turn your face towards East or West; but the righteousness is to believe in Allah, the Last Day, the Angels, the Books and the Prophets, and to spend wealth out of love for Him on relatives, orphans, helpless, needy travellers, those who ask for and on the redemption of captives; and to establish Salah (prayers), to pay Zakah (alms),to fulfill promises when made, to be steadfast in distress, in adversity, and at the time of war. These people are the truthful and these are the pious.
by pickthall
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels
and the Scripture and the Prophets; and giveth his wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor due.And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the God fearing.
By Yusuf Ali
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces toward East or West; but it is righteousness to believe in Allah and the Last Day and the Angels and
the Book and the Messengers; to spend of your substance out of love for Him for your kin for orphans for the needy for the wayfarer for those who
ask and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer and practice regular charity;to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and
patient in pain (or suffering) and adversity and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth the Allah-fearing.
all includes FIRSTLY the believe in Allah, last day, angels, revelations, prophets before mentioning alms giving and im sure the Qur'an you read mentioned those too.
Now i believe you know the conclusion, giving alms doesnt make you pious in the Qur'anic point of view, many things wich are listed above preceeds it and you dont do or believe in any of those. thanks for bringing this up.
I can ascertain that Qur'an 2:177 excludes you with the words in the beginning of the verse.
2:177 translated by malik
Righteousness is not whether you turn your face towards East or West; but the righteousness is to believe in Allah, the Last Day, the Angels, the Books and the Prophets, and to spend wealth out of love for Him on relatives, orphans, helpless, needy travellers, those who ask for and on the redemption of captives; and to establish Salah (prayers), to pay Zakah (alms),to fulfill promises when made, to be steadfast in distress, in adversity, and at the time of war. These people are the truthful and these are the pious.
by pickthall
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels
and the Scripture and the Prophets; and giveth his wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor due.And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the God fearing.
By Yusuf Ali
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces toward East or West; but it is righteousness to believe in Allah and the Last Day and the Angels and
the Book and the Messengers; to spend of your substance out of love for Him for your kin for orphans for the needy for the wayfarer for those who
ask and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer and practice regular charity;to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and
patient in pain (or suffering) and adversity and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth the Allah-fearing.
all includes FIRSTLY the believe in Allah, last day, angels, revelations, prophets before mentioning alms giving and im sure the Qur'an you read mentioned those too.
Now i believe you know the conclusion, giving alms doesnt make you pious in the Qur'anic point of view, many things wich are listed above preceeds it and you dont do or believe in any of those. thanks for bringing this up.
DotmonKing 2011/04/06 22:43
Lets speak logic now if we may... what is charity when you dont believe in the God that gave you life and the wealth which you use in charity??? what is charity when you dont pray to Him, what is charity when you ignore him call. Believe me, you will earn the reward of every atom of charity that you do but will it be enough to save you??? its like for example being given an exam with 10 question and you're to answer 7, but you know just 1 answer... you'll still end up scoring a F in that exam. That was an example, will only charity be enought to save you???
outlaw: And then i went on to say it would only be fair and reasonable that a charitable non-believer should burn in hell and a much less charitable believer be rewarded. I was being sarcastic but isn't that what you actually believe, brother?
Lets speak logic now if we may... what is charity when you dont believe in the God that gave you life and the wealth which you use in charity??? what is charity when you dont pray to Him, what is charity when you ignore him call. Believe me, you will earn the reward of every atom of charity that you do but will it be enough to save you??? its like for example being given an exam with 10 question and you're to answer 7, but you know just 1 answer... you'll still end up scoring a F in that exam. That was an example, will only charity be enought to save you???
DotmonKing 2011/04/06 22:54
i came here to answer my friend kumz and i think i've did that... too busy to sit here, have a nice day
i came here to answer my friend kumz and i think i've did that... too busy to sit here, have a nice day
Kumz 2011/04/07 02:09
I'm afraid I've to ask the same question as outlaw. Why does he choose to reward only those who worship him? Also, the book expects people to be modest. But god himself is not, according to the book. He addresses the people as his "servants". Why? We dont use that word even on the people we have at home,who help us.
I'm afraid I've to ask the same question as outlaw. Why does he choose to reward only those who worship him? Also, the book expects people to be modest. But god himself is not, according to the book. He addresses the people as his "servants". Why? We dont use that word even on the people we have at home,who help us.
Kumz 2011/04/07 02:13
Izaguirre:
Lets speak logic now if we may... what is charity when you dont believe in the God that gave you life and the wealth which you use in charity??? what is charity when you dont pray to Him, what is charity when you ignore him call. Believe me, you will earn the reward of every atom of charity that you do but will it be enough to save you??? its like for example being given an exam with 10 question and you're to answer 7, but you know just 1 answer... you'll still end up scoring a F in that exam. That was an example, will only charity be enought to save you???
as u believe it is god who gave u wealth....and by being charitable,u get rewarded.isn't it unfair that ppl less fortunate (the ones who were not given wealth by god) will miss out on that same reward?
Lets speak logic now if we may... what is charity when you dont believe in the God that gave you life and the wealth which you use in charity??? what is charity when you dont pray to Him, what is charity when you ignore him call. Believe me, you will earn the reward of every atom of charity that you do but will it be enough to save you??? its like for example being given an exam with 10 question and you're to answer 7, but you know just 1 answer... you'll still end up scoring a F in that exam. That was an example, will only charity be enought to save you???
Kumz 2011/04/07 04:24
Izaguirre:
Lets speak logic now if we may... what is charity when you dont believe in the God that gave you life and the wealth which you use in charity??? what is charity when you dont pray to Him, what is charity when you ignore him call. Believe me, you will earn the reward of every atom of charity that you do but will it be enough to save you??? its like for example being given an exam with 10 question and you're to answer 7, but you know just 1 answer... you'll still end up scoring a F in that exam. That was an example, will only charity be enought to save you???
according to this..charity is less important or comes second to worshipping god five times a day.how can helping a starving human or animal be less rewarding than praying to a complete being such as god?
Lets speak logic now if we may... what is charity when you dont believe in the God that gave you life and the wealth which you use in charity??? what is charity when you dont pray to Him, what is charity when you ignore him call. Believe me, you will earn the reward of every atom of charity that you do but will it be enough to save you??? its like for example being given an exam with 10 question and you're to answer 7, but you know just 1 answer... you'll still end up scoring a F in that exam. That was an example, will only charity be enought to save you???
Kumz 2011/04/07 04:30
I really appreciated the fact that the quran mentioned many times abt charity,corruption, etc...it has many good teachings which I've been taught as a Buddhist.well...I'm still reading "the heifer".
I really appreciated the fact that the quran mentioned many times abt charity,corruption, etc...it has many good teachings which I've been taught as a Buddhist.well...I'm still reading "the heifer".
DotmonKing 2011/04/07 06:22
Secondly, you say God is not modest. its one thing to disbelief and its another thing to condemn, i'm sure the soul of that student of yours wont forgive you after realising that thats what your doing with the Qur'an... to extract contexts and to condemn.
Thirdly, yep we are servants of God. What more can you be to the One who already know your past, present and future? He was aware of your coming before you were born and He is fully aware of when you'll die. Slave of Allah, Servant of Allah... I am proud to admit that i am one
Kumz: I'm afraid I've to ask the same question as outlaw. Why does he choose to reward only those who worship him? Also, the book expects people to be modest. But god himself is not, according to the book. He addresses the people as his "servants". Why? We dont use that word even on the people we have at home,who help us.
i believe i've already answered your 1si question here with my 2nd post... if you get rewarded for the charity you do... will that be enough to save your soul? i even remember giving an example with exam.
Secondly, you say God is not modest. its one thing to disbelief and its another thing to condemn, i'm sure the soul of that student of yours wont forgive you after realising that thats what your doing with the Qur'an... to extract contexts and to condemn.
Thirdly, yep we are servants of God. What more can you be to the One who already know your past, present and future? He was aware of your coming before you were born and He is fully aware of when you'll die. Slave of Allah, Servant of Allah... I am proud to admit that i am one
DotmonKing 2011/04/07 06:27
Kumz: as u believe it is god who gave u wealth....and by being charitable,u get rewarded.isn't it unfair that ppl less fortunate (the ones who were not given wealth by god) will miss out on that same reward?
its not only by wealth you can be charitable, prayers for someone else is charity, helping by other means even if its just a word of advice is charity. Allah is not unfair with His creations
DotmonKing 2011/04/07 06:50
What more unconditional love and forgiveness do you still seek? The heavens and hell is real and if Allah should take away hell... the whole of mankind would have become canibals by now... mankind would have self destruct already. Can your ask the government of your country not to punish thieves, murderers, traitor etc anymore and that all prisons in your country to be destroyed siting your view as unconditional love and forgiveness... i give you just 6 months and no soul will be walking freely in your country. 3 years later, only the thugs will be alive... Then what is the gain of your women and children? the weak?
We ask too much sometimes, things that are not real and ideal... May Allah save those whom He wills from hell which will be fueled by man and stone. Amin
outlaw: Okay in all seriousness, Kumz makes a good point. Firstly, the very idea of eternal torture is pointlessly cruel, and at the very least it's not something a merciful being could design. When i think of a merciful being, i think unconditional love and forgiveness. That would be the grandest epitome of mercy. So forget merciful, a god that expects eternal servitude, supplication and kneeling in front of five times a day; constantly needs to be reminded of how great he is, that god isn't even modest.
people dont want to serve God but their tone shows signs of fear of the fire... It takes nothing out of God if the whole of mankind decide not to worship Him. He is He who had destroyed many creations in the past... The creations during the time of prophet Noah were wiped out with rain falling from the heavens and gusshing out from the grounds. The creation during the time of prophet Lut were wiped out with stones raining from the sky because they engaged in homosexuality.
What more unconditional love and forgiveness do you still seek? The heavens and hell is real and if Allah should take away hell... the whole of mankind would have become canibals by now... mankind would have self destruct already. Can your ask the government of your country not to punish thieves, murderers, traitor etc anymore and that all prisons in your country to be destroyed siting your view as unconditional love and forgiveness... i give you just 6 months and no soul will be walking freely in your country. 3 years later, only the thugs will be alive... Then what is the gain of your women and children? the weak?
We ask too much sometimes, things that are not real and ideal... May Allah save those whom He wills from hell which will be fueled by man and stone. Amin
DotmonKing 2011/04/07 06:59
These are the 5 pillars of islam in accordance to their importance.
1.Believe in Allah
2. Salat-Observe your prayers
3. Sawn- fasting in the month of remaddan
4. Zakat- charity
5. Hajj- pilgrimage to mecca (if you have the means (wealth))
Now i think we all know were we stand
Kumz: according to this..charity is less important or comes second to worshipping god five times a day.how can helping a starving human or animal be less rewarding than praying to a complete being such as god?
These are the 5 pillars of islam in accordance to their importance.
1.Believe in Allah
2. Salat-Observe your prayers
3. Sawn- fasting in the month of remaddan
4. Zakat- charity
5. Hajj- pilgrimage to mecca (if you have the means (wealth))
Now i think we all know were we stand
DotmonKing 2011/04/07 07:09
Kumz: I really appreciated the fact that the quran mentioned many times abt charity,corruption, etc...it has many good teachings which I've been taught as a Buddhist.well...I'm still reading "the heifer".
thats one of the most elaborate chapters in the Qur'an. it doesnt speak about only charity. it itals of the time and people of many prophets, how the people refused to worship God, how they got destroyed... charity is the least thing you can gain from that chapter and i pray and hope you havent been skipping many lines as you skipped the beginnig of verse 177 that made you create this thread. The verse is talking more about the warning and kindness that the unbelievers have recieved, how Allah blessed the people of israel above all nations, and also talks about the concequences of being a disbeliever. Enjoy reading
-DeMoN_OvErLoRd- 2011/04/07 11:27
Izaguirre: thats one of the most elaborate chapters in the Qur'an. it doesnt speak about only charity. it itals of the time and people of many prophets, how the people refused to worship God, how they got destroyed... charity is the least thing you can gain from that chapter and i pray and hope you havent been skipping many lines as you skipped the beginnig of verse 177 that made you create this thread. The verse is talking more about the warning and kindness that the unbelievers have recieved, how Allah blessed the people of israel above all nations, and also talks about the concequences of being a disbeliever. Enjoy reading
So the earthquakes and Tsunamis that have hit people are because they didn't believe in God eh? Hmmm as I understand Indonesia is a Muslim nation so why would God want to destroy them? Can you please explain why God has been killing everybody lately..Thank you.
DotmonKing 2011/04/07 14:57
secondly Allah allows nature to run its course and He doesnt alter it. Thus you can view it as a test for the people and you can also view it as completely natural... The people of Japan arent muslims, are they?
-DeMoN_OvErLoRd-: So the earthquakes and Tsunamis that have hit people are because they didn't believe in God eh? Hmmm as I understand Indonesia is a Muslim nation so why would God want to destroy them? Can you please explain why God has been killing everybody lately..Thank you.
Did you read the story of prophet Job??? whom was grieviously sick for most part of his life? That was a test for him. How about the test other prophets met? other nations? Yep indonesia is the worlds largest muslim country but they've remained with their Lord after the disaster.
secondly Allah allows nature to run its course and He doesnt alter it. Thus you can view it as a test for the people and you can also view it as completely natural... The people of Japan arent muslims, are they?
DotmonKing 2011/04/07 15:31
How about the women and Children he says...
Prophet Noah (peace be upon him)... preached for over 950 years for his people to believe in the existence of God but less than 10 people believe in his words... 950 years of preaching... Allah is ever patient, Noah was constantly tortured by his people and then came a day when a child that could barely walk asked and collected a stone and stoned noah... Then Noah prayed to his Lord to destroy the whole of that generation. "my Lord, Leave not one the the disbelievers on this earth".
Allah didnt bring up the idea, it was a man, a prophet that said the heart of his poeple are hardned down to the hearts of their newly born children..... then came the floods... boom!!!!!!!
The people of Lut (sodom and gomorrah) also met their end because of their evil acts.
Mind you, for you to fully know that Allah is not a one-sided God, He says in Qur'an 66:10
Allah sets forth aan example for those who disbelieve, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lut. They were under of Our righteous slaves (Noah and Lut), but they both betrayed their husbands by rejecting their doctrine), so they (Noah and Lut) benefited them (their wives) not, against Allah, and it is said: "Enter the fire along with those who enter!"
These were the wives of the slaves/prophet of Allah.
Then who am i to excect you to listen? Only if Allah wills will anyone listen.
outlaw: That's another good question. Even if we assume that earthquakes and tsunamis are caused by atheism or homosexuality, then why don't the earthquakes and tsunamis kill ONLY atheists and homosexuals? What about little children, who are neither non-believers nor atheists. Why do they die? Or muslims for that matter.
How about the women and Children he says...
Prophet Noah (peace be upon him)... preached for over 950 years for his people to believe in the existence of God but less than 10 people believe in his words... 950 years of preaching... Allah is ever patient, Noah was constantly tortured by his people and then came a day when a child that could barely walk asked and collected a stone and stoned noah... Then Noah prayed to his Lord to destroy the whole of that generation. "my Lord, Leave not one the the disbelievers on this earth".
Allah didnt bring up the idea, it was a man, a prophet that said the heart of his poeple are hardned down to the hearts of their newly born children..... then came the floods... boom!!!!!!!
The people of Lut (sodom and gomorrah) also met their end because of their evil acts.
Mind you, for you to fully know that Allah is not a one-sided God, He says in Qur'an 66:10
Allah sets forth aan example for those who disbelieve, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lut. They were under of Our righteous slaves (Noah and Lut), but they both betrayed their husbands by rejecting their doctrine), so they (Noah and Lut) benefited them (their wives) not, against Allah, and it is said: "Enter the fire along with those who enter!"
These were the wives of the slaves/prophet of Allah.
Then who am i to excect you to listen? Only if Allah wills will anyone listen.
DotmonKing 2011/04/07 21:06
it your post that has a double standard, cos i dont know when aids became a natural disaster.
I'll say this conclusively, When good things happen to believers... Yep its Allah's will, When good things happen to non-believers its still Allah's will, when Bad things happen to believers it's Allah will cos He wouldnt have approved it to happen if He wasnt willing. When bad things happen to unbelievers its still His will. Bearing in mind that it is He who created and structured nature in such a way that it is self-evolving
outlaw: Now i see a double standard there. When a homosexual person gets AIDS, you will say that's God's punishment, right? And when a believer gets AIDS, that is what? A mere test? My point is when good things happen to believers and bad things to non-believers, you will be quick to see God's hand in it. You won't call it something "completely natural". But when bad things happen to believers and good things to non-believers, you will be quick to say, "Well, God doesn't like to interfere in our lives on this earth. But he is watching, and you just wait till judgement day". You can't have it both ways.
First of all i'll beg you to reason a lil more before posting... Speaking about aids, Job feel ill not because he sined against God, how can a muslim who contracted aids through adultery or fornication call that a test??? That is completely his own fault! We're talking of afflictions that you dont deserve.
it your post that has a double standard, cos i dont know when aids became a natural disaster.
I'll say this conclusively, When good things happen to believers... Yep its Allah's will, When good things happen to non-believers its still Allah's will, when Bad things happen to believers it's Allah will cos He wouldnt have approved it to happen if He wasnt willing. When bad things happen to unbelievers its still His will. Bearing in mind that it is He who created and structured nature in such a way that it is self-evolving
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