Quote: Izaguirre: i didnt reply it cos it'll be time wasting. I didnt see any sense in it. Even if ur mother carries you in her womb 4 50 years, she still has no clue to what ur destiny will be, does she? She doesnt kw when you'll die. She doesnt even kw what u'l like or dislike as an infant talkless of when u'r grown up. She didnt even know d exact point of when u were conceived, neither did your dad know. Ur parents just kept on trying till the sign of pregnancy came up. Even the exact sperm cell that fertilized the egg is unknown to your both parent, the they known if you'll be male or female? Its a pity we call our parents our creator only because we refuse to think deep and straight. They cant even prevent us from dying, some of us have lost siblings while our parents are still alive.

But Allah knows all these things and beyond.

Then i ask, who is the real Creator?

He is the One who Created Adam, the One who Created your ma and your pa, the One who Created you, the One who'll Create your children and sometimes even take away our Children before our very eyes. That One is Allah.

I urge us all to think deep with open minds. 5 minutes of pure thoughts and reasoning will actually tell you that your parents are not your creator.

Quote: Spoon: actually religious attacks isnt worse than personal, its the other way around, and the reason y is becsuse every1 has different views and beliefs with religion but when its a personal attack ur attacking that person its 1 on 1 not just a view of a structure. for instance i cld say i dont like the way a group of buildings r built and designed by 1 particualar group of designers that is my view but if i said i dont like a person because they smell thats a personal attack which is taken more seriously

Quote: Izaguirre: thats your own opinion. I put islam before myself so insulting my faith is more severe. But upon that i still always keep calm and reply modestly.

Quote: Kumz: lol!funny how you so easily disregard "patience in hardship and in times of distress" in 2:177 just by saying it's no sin to retaliate. Or are you twisting the words of the quran for your own benefit?

Quote: Kumz: you didn't see any SENSE in it??? Really??? Does it even matter when exactly you're born? If not for your parents, you wouldn't even HAVE a religion! If not for your parents, you wouldn't even BE here. God didn't create YOU from clay. And you say it's a waste of time explaining why your parents are so unimportant? Amazing! What a god, to ask a child to love and worship him, who doesn't even show up in the worst of times (instead "sends" another human in his place) to give a shoulder to cry on. And place so vain to think that person was "god sent" or is and " angel".

Quote: Izaguirre: the literature of this post looks kinda weird. I've responded in the post which you quote. What abt those orphans that dont know their parents? Does that make them any lesser to you and i? Who told you they cant become scholars in this our deen (islam)?
Shoulder to cry on? Very funny sentence. So those without parents have no shoulder 2 cry on? This particular subject has grown so boring.

Quote: Kumz: Our mother may not know when we'll die or our destiny. But she does her best to make sure we're given all the comforts for as long as she lives. And if she knew when we'd die, she'd go out of her way to make us live longer. If that's not possible, she'd love us, hold us, and make sure we are safe and know that we're love by her. Shield us from hurt and evil. Get herself in to trouble to get us out of it. Lie, kill, die to keep us safe from harm. This god, who apparently knows all...what does he do? Let loose a so called devil. Allow ppl to "do as they wish" at their own risk. Take them to heaven if they "pass"? And you say he loves you more than your mother does?lol!

Quote: Izaguirre: so many questions in one post. How many will i answer? Hmm Allah has made me such a man in faithzone.
If i may ask, you are those biased against you? Its sad for man not to notice that his own atitude was responsible for his shortcomings. We had no muslim mod who was a consistent faithzone user. The 3 mods who were consistent here were kumz, spoon and bloody odity and none of them were muslims. So how could you possibly be complaining of bias? I had none fighting for me or supporting me, no 2wapper can help me as much as i can help myself. And thats why i also never report anybody. We are all responsible for our own dealings and shortcomings.

2ndly your question has already been answered by itself. You choose science and i choose God. Whatelse do you wana hear?

Quote: outlaw: No it is not. I am willing to discuss this in 2wap info. That's a ridiculous thing for a mod to say. Nothing is severe than personal attacks. There are no "religious attacks" being done here either. I'm using YOUR OWN words about your faith to draw logical conclusions about it. I'm using very simple reasoning when i say "all torturers are evil". I invite you to find faults with that reasoning. Your refusal to do so means you agree with me. I could be accused of a baseless attack on your religion if i said Allah was evil without explaining why i think so. Everytime i make a statement about the nature of Allah, i lay out the reasoning which leads me to it.


I didn't force you to say anything. You wanted me to respect your beliefs. I said I'll respect your beliefs if you respect my non-belief by saying that you do not believe i deserve to burn in hell. I think its a reasonable demand
When you say it's not your own words, do you mean it's something you don't personally believe, but have to because it's written in the Quran.
I have been polite to muslims. Even if i have issues with Islam, i am polite to all muslims. I believe muslims are good people despite their religion, not because of it. You need to learn to differentiate between "insults" and "statements backed with reasoning". Point out one statement i have made that qualifies as an insult.

Quote: outlaw:
So Allah is a sensible, secular god. Believes in freedom of speech and the right to worship other gods, or no gods at all. Sweet! Why does he have a hell for non-believers then? And in the Quran doesn't he tell Mohammad to "kill the disbelievers wherever ye find them"?

Quote: outlaw: Really? How naive. I assume Hell to be a real place to see what conclusions it leads us to about the person who created Hell. A tentative assumption made for the sake of argument.
If a person ends up in hell, then that's his destiny. If it's our actions that determine heaven or hell (assuming hell exists, again a tentative concession for the sake of argument), then the original destinies are meaningless. In other words, we write our own destinies and your original contention that God does it stands refuted. (Again, a logical conclusion drawn from your own words, just to show you how reasoning works)

Quote: outlaw: I will if you continue to accuse me of insults.

Quote: outlaw:
I'm not asking for a promise of something that doesn't exist. I'm just saying that when you feel you have the right to judge atheists and call them adulterers, fornicators, cheaters, gamblers and claim that a non believer can't be righteous, all personal insults made on no basis whatsoever, then you have no right to complain when we call your beliefs stupid. And calling such beliefs stupid is not even a personal insult.

I respect you. That's all i can grant you. The idea of Hell is evil. There's no way i can sugarcoat that. I don't say "Islam is evil". The things about Islam which are evil will be called evil, and i will explain why. You on the other hand make sweeping generalizations about atheism.