Is Jesus Christ actually God? by Rango 2014/12/25 17:17
John 17:3, NW: "[This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.]"
What does it mean by 'The only true God".Does it not come to mind that there are very many other Gods and then among all, there is only one true God, Jehovah, the almighty?!
Take an example of gods you have recently heard; god of war, god of the rain and all other gods.
John 17:3, NW: "[This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.]"
What does it mean by 'The only true God".Does it not come to mind that there are very many other Gods and then among all, there is only one true God, Jehovah, the almighty?!
Take an example of gods you have recently heard; god of war, god of the rain and all other gods.
Rango 2014/12/30 13:12
There is no argument.There is learning.All my topics and posts in this forum are intended to teach and not debating or undermining people's beliefs..I do not say 'am right' or "you are wrong" or "follow this".I say 'i believe in..'
My posts are for a wise man who is seeking the truth to understand and ask qns and not for an apostate to debate about
Quote: ethereal:
I'd much rather have this argument with bad_apple.... anyway... So He is a lesser god and not a God?
I'd much rather have this argument with bad_apple.... anyway... So He is a lesser god and not a God?
There is no argument.There is learning.All my topics and posts in this forum are intended to teach and not debating or undermining people's beliefs..I do not say 'am right' or "you are wrong" or "follow this".I say 'i believe in..'
My posts are for a wise man who is seeking the truth to understand and ask qns and not for an apostate to debate about
detrimentum 2014/12/30 13:14
This is from the old testament, so its the One True God speaking.
Zechariah 12:10 “I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so
that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like
the bitter weeping over a firstborn.
Not only is God referring to Himself in the third person (the Son), He is referring to the day He will be crucified. The God who will destroy the enemies of Jerusalem is infact the God who sacrificed Himself on the cross in the humble position of a man. Therefore, Jesus is God and this scripture is evidence of the Trinity.
unless ''me'' and ''him'' is a metaphor for Jerusalem, who was addressed as ''her'' in verse 6 and is therefore a ''she''.
perhaps I'm reading it wrong... A common occurance amongst Christians isn't it?
I have more old testament scripture if you want....
Quote: Rango:
It means that even though Jesus is called a god, he is not the true God;- God the almighty
It means that even though Jesus is called a god, he is not the true God;- God the almighty
This is from the old testament, so its the One True God speaking.
Zechariah 12:10 “I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so
that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like
the bitter weeping over a firstborn.
Not only is God referring to Himself in the third person (the Son), He is referring to the day He will be crucified. The God who will destroy the enemies of Jerusalem is infact the God who sacrificed Himself on the cross in the humble position of a man. Therefore, Jesus is God and this scripture is evidence of the Trinity.
unless ''me'' and ''him'' is a metaphor for Jerusalem, who was addressed as ''her'' in verse 6 and is therefore a ''she''.
perhaps I'm reading it wrong... A common occurance amongst Christians isn't it?
I have more old testament scripture if you want....
detrimentum 2014/12/30 13:19
Well.... I am trying to figure the God business out. I'm open to being educated. there will always be a debate here, if its not people with opposite beliefs, its people with the same belief but opposite views....that's what religion has become.
Quote: Rango:
There is no argument.There is learning.All my topics and posts in this forum are intended to teach and not debating or undermining people's beliefs..I do not say 'am right' or "you are wrong" or "follow this".I say 'i believe in..'
My posts are for a wise man who is seeking the truth to understand and ask qns and not for an apostate to debate about
There is no argument.There is learning.All my topics and posts in this forum are intended to teach and not debating or undermining people's beliefs..I do not say 'am right' or "you are wrong" or "follow this".I say 'i believe in..'
My posts are for a wise man who is seeking the truth to understand and ask qns and not for an apostate to debate about
Well.... I am trying to figure the God business out. I'm open to being educated. there will always be a debate here, if its not people with opposite beliefs, its people with the same belief but opposite views....that's what religion has become.
Rango 2014/12/30 13:33
and not "...to me whome they pierced...".Iam using The New World Translation of the Holly Scriptures.Can u pliz try any other version.
Can give other scriptures that prove that the trinity is right.I have more to disapprove u.
Quote: ethereal:
This is from the old testament, so its the One True God speaking.
Zechariah 12:10 “I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so
that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like
the bitter weeping over a firstborn.
Not only is God referring to Himself in the third person (the Son), He is referring to the day He will be crucified. The God who will destroy the enemies of Jerusalem is infact the God who sacrificed Himself on the cross in the humble position of a man. Therefore, Jesus is God and this scripture is evidence of the Trinity.
unless ''me'' and ''him'' is a metaphor for Jerusalem, who was addressed as ''her'' in verse 6 and is therefore a ''she''.
perhaps I'm reading it wrong... A common occurance amongst Christians isn't it?
I have more old testament scripture if you want....
Sorry.But Bible translations defer.In my Bible, the scripture reads "...and they will look to the one whom they pierced..."This is from the old testament, so its the One True God speaking.
Zechariah 12:10 “I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so
that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like
the bitter weeping over a firstborn.
Not only is God referring to Himself in the third person (the Son), He is referring to the day He will be crucified. The God who will destroy the enemies of Jerusalem is infact the God who sacrificed Himself on the cross in the humble position of a man. Therefore, Jesus is God and this scripture is evidence of the Trinity.
unless ''me'' and ''him'' is a metaphor for Jerusalem, who was addressed as ''her'' in verse 6 and is therefore a ''she''.
perhaps I'm reading it wrong... A common occurance amongst Christians isn't it?
I have more old testament scripture if you want....
and not "...to me whome they pierced...".Iam using The New World Translation of the Holly Scriptures.Can u pliz try any other version.
Can give other scriptures that prove that the trinity is right.I have more to disapprove u.
detrimentum 2014/12/30 13:41
Even in that translation God was speaking of Himself.
Zechariah 11:12-13: 12: I told them, "If you think it best, give me my
pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty
pieces of silver. 13: And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the
potter"-the handsome price at which they priced
me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw
them into the house of the LORD to the potter.
The One True God referring to His crucifixion again.... Meaning, while God(the Son) was on earth He was praying to His Father in Heaven... Trinity.
Quote: Rango: Sorry.But Bible translations defer.In my Bible, the scripture reads "...and they will look to the one whom they pierced..."
and not "...to me whome they pierced...".Iam using The New World Translation of the Holly Scriptures.Can u pliz try any other version.
Can give other scriptures that prove that the trinity is right.I have more to disapprove u.
and not "...to me whome they pierced...".Iam using The New World Translation of the Holly Scriptures.Can u pliz try any other version.
Can give other scriptures that prove that the trinity is right.I have more to disapprove u.
Even in that translation God was speaking of Himself.
Zechariah 11:12-13: 12: I told them, "If you think it best, give me my
pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty
pieces of silver. 13: And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the
potter"-the handsome price at which they priced
me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw
them into the house of the LORD to the potter.
The One True God referring to His crucifixion again.... Meaning, while God(the Son) was on earth He was praying to His Father in Heaven... Trinity.
detrimentum 2014/12/30 13:45
I stay away from anything that starts with ''new world''.... I only use NLT.
Quote: Rango: Sorry.But Bible translations defer.In my Bible, the scripture reads "...and they will look to the one whom they pierced..."
and not "...to me whome they pierced...".Iam using The New World Translation of the Holly Scriptures.Can u pliz try any other version.
Can give other scriptures that prove that the trinity is right.I have more to disapprove u.
and not "...to me whome they pierced...".Iam using The New World Translation of the Holly Scriptures.Can u pliz try any other version.
Can give other scriptures that prove that the trinity is right.I have more to disapprove u.
I stay away from anything that starts with ''new world''.... I only use NLT.
Rango 2014/12/30 14:12
From ur Bible and in your own words, can u pliz explain John 1:1 to support the trinity? "...the word was with God and the word was God"
If u agree with the trinity, is there sence in this verse?How many Godr are being spoken of? If he is One God, how can one be with someone and at the same time be that very person?
If he is God, whome did he pray to while on earth and who is that who sent him on earth?
From ur Bible and in your own words, can u pliz explain John 1:1 to support the trinity? "...the word was with God and the word was God"
If u agree with the trinity, is there sence in this verse?How many Godr are being spoken of? If he is One God, how can one be with someone and at the same time be that very person?
If he is God, whome did he pray to while on earth and who is that who sent him on earth?
detrimentum 2014/12/30 14:44
Okay... But I have given you two old testament scriptures where God Himself proved it. Why would you need more?
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling
among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of
the one and only Son, who came from the
Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was God.
in other words... If the Word is God and the Word was with God, and the Word became flesh and dwelled on earth then Jesus was God on earth. The Father send a part of Himself ( the trinity ) to earth.
The word is everything. From creation to destruction. Its the beginning and end.
John 13:13 "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly
so, for that is what I am.''
Jesus was a teacher... it was His purpose to teach people how to pray. Not only that, He spoke to God. He was a MAN and men speak to God. I don't understand why that's so hard to understand.
are you asking why Jesus wasn't omnipresent? He was a man. Physically a person without power. He had the power of prayer. That was His only power on earth, which is why He prayed so much. And why Christians still pray today.
Quote: Rango:
From ur Bible and in your own words, can u pliz explain John 1:1 to support the trinity? "...the word was with God and the word was God"
If u agree with the trinity, is there sence in this verse?How many Godr are being spoken of? If he is One God, how can one be with someone and at the same time be that very person?
If he is God, whome did he pray to while on earth and who is that who sent him on earth?
From ur Bible and in your own words, can u pliz explain John 1:1 to support the trinity? "...the word was with God and the word was God"
If u agree with the trinity, is there sence in this verse?How many Godr are being spoken of? If he is One God, how can one be with someone and at the same time be that very person?
If he is God, whome did he pray to while on earth and who is that who sent him on earth?
Okay... But I have given you two old testament scriptures where God Himself proved it. Why would you need more?
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling
among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of
the one and only Son, who came from the
Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was God.
in other words... If the Word is God and the Word was with God, and the Word became flesh and dwelled on earth then Jesus was God on earth. The Father send a part of Himself ( the trinity ) to earth.
The word is everything. From creation to destruction. Its the beginning and end.
John 13:13 "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly
so, for that is what I am.''
Jesus was a teacher... it was His purpose to teach people how to pray. Not only that, He spoke to God. He was a MAN and men speak to God. I don't understand why that's so hard to understand.
are you asking why Jesus wasn't omnipresent? He was a man. Physically a person without power. He had the power of prayer. That was His only power on earth, which is why He prayed so much. And why Christians still pray today.
Rango 2014/12/30 15:53
Quote: ethereal:
Okay... But I have given you two old testament scriptures where God Himself proved it. Why would you need more?
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling
among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of
the one and only Son, who came from the
Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was God.
in other words... If the Word is God and the Word was with God, and the Word became flesh and dwelled on earth then Jesus was God on earth. The Father send a part of Himself ( the trinity ) to earth.
The word is everything. From creation to destruction. Its the beginning and end.
John 13:13 "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly
so, for that is what I am.''
Jesus was a teacher... it was His purpose to teach people how to pray. Not only that, He spoke to God. He was a MAN and men speak to God. I don't understand why that's so hard to understand.
are you asking why Jesus wasn't omnipresent? He was a man. Physically a person without power. He had the power of prayer. That was His only power on earth, which is why He prayed so much. And why Christians still pray today.
perhaps it's more confusing.He is the son and the same time the father to himself.And yet the father is God, the son is God and the holly spirit is God and all form one God.If the holly spirit is God, and Jesus is God.Wen he went to heaven, he sent the holly spirit on earth.If the holly spirit, Son and father form one complete God and yet the holly spirit is on earth, that means the God in heaven is not complete
Okay... But I have given you two old testament scriptures where God Himself proved it. Why would you need more?
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling
among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of
the one and only Son, who came from the
Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was God.
in other words... If the Word is God and the Word was with God, and the Word became flesh and dwelled on earth then Jesus was God on earth. The Father send a part of Himself ( the trinity ) to earth.
The word is everything. From creation to destruction. Its the beginning and end.
John 13:13 "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly
so, for that is what I am.''
Jesus was a teacher... it was His purpose to teach people how to pray. Not only that, He spoke to God. He was a MAN and men speak to God. I don't understand why that's so hard to understand.
are you asking why Jesus wasn't omnipresent? He was a man. Physically a person without power. He had the power of prayer. That was His only power on earth, which is why He prayed so much. And why Christians still pray today.
detrimentum 2014/12/30 17:12
Its very confusing... It took me a long time to understand it.
The Spirit can only be where only God is, and the Spirit is only there in Jesus Name. You can only talk to the Father through Jesus, and you can only repent before you talk to God with help of the Spirit... They are at all times connected. They are God.
Its good that you question, God made you to question. He wants you to choose Him because you want too, not because someone says so or you feel you have too. And you can only decide once you have questioned, because you can only question once you think. And that is what sets you apart from both animal and angel.
Ps, the new world translation was published by a certain church. Its so translated to fit their doctrine and ideas.... Rather use a translation with no connection to a church. Any living translation is okay. And easy to understand.
Quote: Rango: perhaps it's more confusing.He is the son and the same time the father to himself.And yet the father is God, the son is God and the holly spirit is God and all form one God.If the holly spirit is God, and Jesus is God.Wen he went to heaven, he sent the holly spirit on earth.If the holly spirit, Son and father form one complete God and yet the holly spirit is on earth, that means the God in heaven is not complete
Its very confusing... It took me a long time to understand it.
The Spirit can only be where only God is, and the Spirit is only there in Jesus Name. You can only talk to the Father through Jesus, and you can only repent before you talk to God with help of the Spirit... They are at all times connected. They are God.
Its good that you question, God made you to question. He wants you to choose Him because you want too, not because someone says so or you feel you have too. And you can only decide once you have questioned, because you can only question once you think. And that is what sets you apart from both animal and angel.
Ps, the new world translation was published by a certain church. Its so translated to fit their doctrine and ideas.... Rather use a translation with no connection to a church. Any living translation is okay. And easy to understand.
Rango 2015/01/01 14:15
"...you can only talk to the father through Jesus..."
That quate gives a clear evidence that Jesus Christ is not equal to the father nor is he himself a father and that they are not one as the trinity states.If someone says "You can only talk to the boss through the secretary", does it mean the secretary is equal to the boss or that he/she is the boss?Obviously no
Quote: ethereal:
Its very confusing... It took me a long time to understand it.
The Spirit can only be where only God is, and the Spirit is only there in Jesus Name. You can only talk to the Father through Jesus, and you can only repent before you talk to God with help of the Spirit... They are at all times connected. They are God.
Its good that you question, God made you to question. He wants you to choose Him because you want too, not because someone says so or you feel you have too. And you can only decide once you have questioned, because you can only question once you think. And that is what sets you apart from both animal and angel.
Ps, the new world translation was published by a certain church. Its so translated to fit their doctrine and ideas.... Rather use a translation with no connection to a church. Any living translation is okay. And easy to understand.
I quated some of your text and perhaps i came up with an idea.Its very confusing... It took me a long time to understand it.
The Spirit can only be where only God is, and the Spirit is only there in Jesus Name. You can only talk to the Father through Jesus, and you can only repent before you talk to God with help of the Spirit... They are at all times connected. They are God.
Its good that you question, God made you to question. He wants you to choose Him because you want too, not because someone says so or you feel you have too. And you can only decide once you have questioned, because you can only question once you think. And that is what sets you apart from both animal and angel.
Ps, the new world translation was published by a certain church. Its so translated to fit their doctrine and ideas.... Rather use a translation with no connection to a church. Any living translation is okay. And easy to understand.
"...you can only talk to the father through Jesus..."
That quate gives a clear evidence that Jesus Christ is not equal to the father nor is he himself a father and that they are not one as the trinity states.If someone says "You can only talk to the boss through the secretary", does it mean the secretary is equal to the boss or that he/she is the boss?Obviously no
Rango 2015/01/01 14:28
The other text reads "...they are at all time connected.They are God."
What do you connect? You connect different parts.What comes to mind is that, if Jesus Christ is connected to the father and the same time the holly spirit, then they are 3 different persons.Just like a 3 in 1 game, each game in the app is different from another.What relates them is that they are games and in one application.That's the same with the matter, they are all Gods in heaven but the father is the allmighty God
The other text reads "...they are at all time connected.They are God."
What do you connect? You connect different parts.What comes to mind is that, if Jesus Christ is connected to the father and the same time the holly spirit, then they are 3 different persons.Just like a 3 in 1 game, each game in the app is different from another.What relates them is that they are games and in one application.That's the same with the matter, they are all Gods in heaven but the father is the allmighty God
detrimentum 2015/01/01 18:40
They aren't God(s). Its God. I'm running out of ways to explain this.
God is the brain.
Jesus the ears.
Holy Spirit the mouth.
The are separate in function. Not in matter. Its still one being.
If you tale a triangle apart it will be 3 lines, those 3 lines cannot form anything but a triangle. Like the triangle, the Trinity is a perfect thing with more than one part, and without all 3 in cannot be a shape... I go back to ''in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God and the Word was WITH God'' what God is, is also with Him.
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without
form, and void; and darkness
was upon the face of the
deep. And the Spirit of God
moved upon the face of the
waters.
His Spirit moved apart from Him. He [God] didn't move, His Spirit did. Its both separate from Him and Its Him.
Quote: Rango: The other text reads "...they are at all time connected.They are God."
What do you connect? You connect different parts.What comes to mind is that, if Jesus Christ is connected to the father and the same time the holly spirit, then they are 3 different persons.Just like a 3 in 1 game, each game in the app is different from another.What relates them is that they are games and in one application.That's the same with the matter, they are all Gods in heaven but the father is the allmighty God
What do you connect? You connect different parts.What comes to mind is that, if Jesus Christ is connected to the father and the same time the holly spirit, then they are 3 different persons.Just like a 3 in 1 game, each game in the app is different from another.What relates them is that they are games and in one application.That's the same with the matter, they are all Gods in heaven but the father is the allmighty God
They aren't God(s). Its God. I'm running out of ways to explain this.
God is the brain.
Jesus the ears.
Holy Spirit the mouth.
The are separate in function. Not in matter. Its still one being.
If you tale a triangle apart it will be 3 lines, those 3 lines cannot form anything but a triangle. Like the triangle, the Trinity is a perfect thing with more than one part, and without all 3 in cannot be a shape... I go back to ''in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God and the Word was WITH God'' what God is, is also with Him.
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without
form, and void; and darkness
was upon the face of the
deep. And the Spirit of God
moved upon the face of the
waters.
His Spirit moved apart from Him. He [God] didn't move, His Spirit did. Its both separate from Him and Its Him.
detrimentum 2015/01/01 18:53
No... through Jesus means ''in Jesus Name''. Nothing is possible without Jesus. especially prayer... Jesus will not Judge us for example... That's evidence of the Trinity. He is apart from God. Yet, there is no salvation without Him. That's evidence of the Trinity. Because the Judge, can only Judge because of the possibility of salvation. And your name can only be written in the book of the Lamb with help of the Spirit.
Quote: Rango: I quated some of your text and perhaps i came up with an idea.
"...you can only talk to the father through Jesus..."
That quate gives a clear evidence that Jesus Christ is not equal to the father nor is he himself a father and that they are not one as the trinity states.If someone says "You can only talk to the boss through the secretary", does it mean the secretary is equal to the boss or that he/she is the boss?Obviously no
"...you can only talk to the father through Jesus..."
That quate gives a clear evidence that Jesus Christ is not equal to the father nor is he himself a father and that they are not one as the trinity states.If someone says "You can only talk to the boss through the secretary", does it mean the secretary is equal to the boss or that he/she is the boss?Obviously no
No... through Jesus means ''in Jesus Name''. Nothing is possible without Jesus. especially prayer... Jesus will not Judge us for example... That's evidence of the Trinity. He is apart from God. Yet, there is no salvation without Him. That's evidence of the Trinity. Because the Judge, can only Judge because of the possibility of salvation. And your name can only be written in the book of the Lamb with help of the Spirit.
Rango 2015/01/01 20:35
Jesus [The son] has a name and it is 'Jesus'
God [The father] has a name and it is 'Jehovah'
The holly spirit is the helper
Psalms 83:18 states that "May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth"
Jehovah, [the father] not Jesus is the most high.He's not equal to the son and the spirit.
Matthew 3:17 "Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said:"This is my son, the beloved, whome i have approved"
Quote: ethereal:
No... through Jesus means ''in Jesus Name''. Nothing is possible without Jesus. especially prayer... Jesus will not Judge us for example... That's evidence of the Trinity. He is apart from God. Yet, there is no salvation without Him. That's evidence of the Trinity. Because the Judge, can only Judge because of the possibility of salvation. And your name can only be written in the book of the Lamb with help of the Spirit.
"..in Jesus' name.."No... through Jesus means ''in Jesus Name''. Nothing is possible without Jesus. especially prayer... Jesus will not Judge us for example... That's evidence of the Trinity. He is apart from God. Yet, there is no salvation without Him. That's evidence of the Trinity. Because the Judge, can only Judge because of the possibility of salvation. And your name can only be written in the book of the Lamb with help of the Spirit.
Jesus [The son] has a name and it is 'Jesus'
God [The father] has a name and it is 'Jehovah'
The holly spirit is the helper
Psalms 83:18 states that "May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth"
Jehovah, [the father] not Jesus is the most high.He's not equal to the son and the spirit.
Matthew 3:17 "Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said:"This is my son, the beloved, whome i have approved"
detrimentum 2015/01/01 20:58
Okay, I give up... You don't even acknowledge God speaking of His crucifixion. which makes me believe that you don't want to understand... nevemind the back and forth. That alone is enough. Be seeing you
Quote: Rango: "..in Jesus' name.."
Jesus [The son] has a name and it is 'Jesus'
God [The father] has a name and it is 'Jehovah'
The holly spirit is the helper
Psalms 83:18 states that "May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth"
Jehovah, [the father] not Jesus is the most high.He's not equal to the son and the spirit.
Matthew 3:17 "Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said:"This is my son, the beloved, whome i have approved"
Jesus [The son] has a name and it is 'Jesus'
God [The father] has a name and it is 'Jehovah'
The holly spirit is the helper
Psalms 83:18 states that "May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth"
Jehovah, [the father] not Jesus is the most high.He's not equal to the son and the spirit.
Matthew 3:17 "Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said:"This is my son, the beloved, whome i have approved"
Okay, I give up... You don't even acknowledge God speaking of His crucifixion. which makes me believe that you don't want to understand... nevemind the back and forth. That alone is enough. Be seeing you
Rango 2015/01/01 21:03
I got alot of infomation that may be so beneficial for learning, but it's all tiresome typing here.Here are the scriptures u may refer to on this matter
Mathew 6:9
Deut. 6:4
John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13
Acts 7:55, 56
Matt. 22:39
John 8:17, 18
Mark 13:32
Rev. 1:1; 3:14
1 Peter 1:3
Many more scriptures, but i'll explain any you wish me to
I got alot of infomation that may be so beneficial for learning, but it's all tiresome typing here.Here are the scriptures u may refer to on this matter
Mathew 6:9
Deut. 6:4
John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13
Acts 7:55, 56
Matt. 22:39
John 8:17, 18
Mark 13:32
Rev. 1:1; 3:14
1 Peter 1:3
Many more scriptures, but i'll explain any you wish me to
Rango 2015/01/01 21:24
John 17:1-3 "Father,...this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whome thou hast sent"RS
1 Cor. 8:5, 6, RS: "Although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth-as indeed there are many 'gods' and many 'lords'-yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whome are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whome are all things and through whom we exist"
Quote: ethereal:
Okay, I give up... You don't even acknowledge God speaking of His crucifixion. which makes me believe that you don't want to understand... nevemind the back and forth. That alone is enough. Be seeing you
These r my last quotes.Pliz verify from your BibleOkay, I give up... You don't even acknowledge God speaking of His crucifixion. which makes me believe that you don't want to understand... nevemind the back and forth. That alone is enough. Be seeing you
John 17:1-3 "Father,...this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whome thou hast sent"RS
1 Cor. 8:5, 6, RS: "Although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth-as indeed there are many 'gods' and many 'lords'-yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whome are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whome are all things and through whom we exist"
detrimentum 2015/01/02 07:25
I don't understand the point you are trying to make.... If all things were made through both God and Jesus, and if everlasting life is only possible through both God and Jesus then its obvious that Jesus is equal to God... neither is possible without both... Because if you reject God the Son, you reject God the Father. Because They are One.
don't you believe it, or don't you understand it? Because if you understand it then you are refusing to believe anything but the Jehovah's Witness doctrine. and I'm arguing with someone who doesn't believe what I believe, and that's pointless. And neither one of us will accept the others belief. If you don't understand it, and you are trying too, there is a point to all this. you will not change your view on the Trinity and I will not change mine.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept
the things that come from the Spirit of God but
considers them foolishness, and cannot
understand them because they are discerned
only through the Spirit.
Quote: Rango: These r my last quotes.Pliz verify from your Bible
John 17:1-3 "Father,...this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whome thou hast sent"RS
1 Cor. 8:5, 6, RS: "Although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth-as indeed there are many 'gods' and many 'lords'-yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whome are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whome are all things and through whom we exist"
John 17:1-3 "Father,...this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whome thou hast sent"RS
1 Cor. 8:5, 6, RS: "Although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth-as indeed there are many 'gods' and many 'lords'-yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whome are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whome are all things and through whom we exist"
I don't understand the point you are trying to make.... If all things were made through both God and Jesus, and if everlasting life is only possible through both God and Jesus then its obvious that Jesus is equal to God... neither is possible without both... Because if you reject God the Son, you reject God the Father. Because They are One.
don't you believe it, or don't you understand it? Because if you understand it then you are refusing to believe anything but the Jehovah's Witness doctrine. and I'm arguing with someone who doesn't believe what I believe, and that's pointless. And neither one of us will accept the others belief. If you don't understand it, and you are trying too, there is a point to all this. you will not change your view on the Trinity and I will not change mine.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept
the things that come from the Spirit of God but
considers them foolishness, and cannot
understand them because they are discerned
only through the Spirit.
detrimentum 2015/01/02 08:30
Mathew 6:9
Its the Lords prayer? The prayer dedicated to the Father.
Deut 6:4 The Lord our God is one? Yes. The Trinity is the oneness of God too.
John 14:6 I have used this in my argument for the Trinity. That there is no way to the Father except through the Son.
John 17.... is the essence of the Trinity.
10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me
through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am
coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the
power of your name--the name you gave me--so
that they may be one as we are one.
( did you even read John 17? Did you read it with open eyes?)
There isn't a John 26 in the Bible.
John 15:26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of
truth who goes out from the Father—he will
testify about me.
The Spirit ''goes out from the Father'' meaning it was in the Father.... I don't understand these scriptures... so far they are evidence of the Trinity.
John 13:16 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not
speak on his own authority, but whatever
he hears he will speak, and he will declare
to you the things that are to come.
Considering that the Spirit is God... I'm not sure what this is meant to imply. '' not His own authority'' perhaps? If He went out from God then He is both God and part of God and being part of God yet separate would mean that He would still act like God and not as a separate being .
I really don't see the point of continuing with the scriptures you gave me.... As all of them doesn't make sense when it comes to you not believing in the Trinity. and its very tiring having to read it, then explain it... Especially to someone capable of reading, but doing so blindly. Because if your eyes were open you'd see verses like ''we are one'' ''goes out from God'' but you don't....
Quote: Rango: I got alot of infomation that may be so beneficial for learning, but it's all tiresome typing here.Here are the scriptures u may refer to on this matter
Mathew 6:9
Deut. 6:4
John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13
Acts 7:55, 56
Matt. 22:39
John 8:17, 18
Mark 13:32
Rev. 1:1; 3:14
1 Peter 1:3
Many more scriptures, but i'll explain any you wish me to
Mathew 6:9
Deut. 6:4
John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13
Acts 7:55, 56
Matt. 22:39
John 8:17, 18
Mark 13:32
Rev. 1:1; 3:14
1 Peter 1:3
Many more scriptures, but i'll explain any you wish me to
Mathew 6:9
Its the Lords prayer? The prayer dedicated to the Father.
Deut 6:4 The Lord our God is one? Yes. The Trinity is the oneness of God too.
John 14:6 I have used this in my argument for the Trinity. That there is no way to the Father except through the Son.
John 17.... is the essence of the Trinity.
10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me
through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am
coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the
power of your name--the name you gave me--so
that they may be one as we are one.
( did you even read John 17? Did you read it with open eyes?)
There isn't a John 26 in the Bible.
John 15:26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of
truth who goes out from the Father—he will
testify about me.
The Spirit ''goes out from the Father'' meaning it was in the Father.... I don't understand these scriptures... so far they are evidence of the Trinity.
John 13:16 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not
speak on his own authority, but whatever
he hears he will speak, and he will declare
to you the things that are to come.
Considering that the Spirit is God... I'm not sure what this is meant to imply. '' not His own authority'' perhaps? If He went out from God then He is both God and part of God and being part of God yet separate would mean that He would still act like God and not as a separate being .
I really don't see the point of continuing with the scriptures you gave me.... As all of them doesn't make sense when it comes to you not believing in the Trinity. and its very tiring having to read it, then explain it... Especially to someone capable of reading, but doing so blindly. Because if your eyes were open you'd see verses like ''we are one'' ''goes out from God'' but you don't....
Replies: 66
#78 Faith/Beliefs
Share your views and beliefs on religion, theology, culture and matters of faith.