"Response to Qur'an 9:5" by Musafir 2010/01/13 11:03
My one friend @ demon overlord quoted QUR'AN 9:5 but he forgot to quote QURAN 9:6 in this topic topic id: 2062830 :P
“… Fight and slay the Mushrik Kafir wherever you find them …†(Al Qur’an 9:5) :)
If you read the Qur’an,
this verse exists but it is
quoted out of context
by Arun Shourie.
The first few verses of
Surah Tawbah before
verse 5 speak about the
peace treaty between
the Muslims and
Muskhriks (polytheists)
of Makkah. This peace
treaty was unilaterally
broken by the Mushriks
of Makkah. In verse no.
5 Allah (swt) gives them
an ultimatum to put
things straight in four
months ’ time, or else
face a declaration of
war. It is for the
battlefield that Allah
says “fight and slay the
Mushriks (i.e. the
enemies from Makkah)
wherever you find them
and seize them,
beleaguer them, and lie
in wait for them in every
stratagem of warâ€.
This verse is revealed
and instructs the Muslims
to fight in the battlefield
and kill the enemy
wherever you find them.
But natural, any army
general to boost up the
morale of the soldiers
and to encourage them
will say “Don’t get
scared, fight and kill the
enemies, wherever you
find them in the
battlefield. Arun Shourie
in his book ‘The World of
Fatwas’ after quoting
Surah Tawbah chapter 9
verse 5 jumps to verse
7. Any logical person will
realize that verse 6 has
the reply to his
allegation.
Surah Tawbah chapter 9 verse 6 says:
:)
“If any amongst the Mushriks (i.e. the enemies)
ask thee for asylum, grant it to him so that
he may hear the word of Allah and then
escort him to where he can be secure â€. (Al Qur’an 9:6)
:)
Today the most merciful
army general may tell
his soldiers to let the
enemy go, but Almighty
Allah in the Qur ’an says
if the enemy wants
peace do not just let
them go but escort them
to a place of security.
Which army general in
today ’s day and age, or
rather in the whole of
recorded human history
is ever known to have
given such merciful
instructions? Now will
someone ask Mr. Arun
Shourie
Why did he deliberately not quote verse 6? :P
My one friend @ demon overlord quoted QUR'AN 9:5 but he forgot to quote QURAN 9:6 in this topic topic id: 2062830 :P
“… Fight and slay the Mushrik Kafir wherever you find them …†(Al Qur’an 9:5) :)
If you read the Qur’an,
this verse exists but it is
quoted out of context
by Arun Shourie.
The first few verses of
Surah Tawbah before
verse 5 speak about the
peace treaty between
the Muslims and
Muskhriks (polytheists)
of Makkah. This peace
treaty was unilaterally
broken by the Mushriks
of Makkah. In verse no.
5 Allah (swt) gives them
an ultimatum to put
things straight in four
months ’ time, or else
face a declaration of
war. It is for the
battlefield that Allah
says “fight and slay the
Mushriks (i.e. the
enemies from Makkah)
wherever you find them
and seize them,
beleaguer them, and lie
in wait for them in every
stratagem of warâ€.
This verse is revealed
and instructs the Muslims
to fight in the battlefield
and kill the enemy
wherever you find them.
But natural, any army
general to boost up the
morale of the soldiers
and to encourage them
will say “Don’t get
scared, fight and kill the
enemies, wherever you
find them in the
battlefield. Arun Shourie
in his book ‘The World of
Fatwas’ after quoting
Surah Tawbah chapter 9
verse 5 jumps to verse
7. Any logical person will
realize that verse 6 has
the reply to his
allegation.
Surah Tawbah chapter 9 verse 6 says:
:)
“If any amongst the Mushriks (i.e. the enemies)
ask thee for asylum, grant it to him so that
he may hear the word of Allah and then
escort him to where he can be secure â€. (Al Qur’an 9:6)
:)
Today the most merciful
army general may tell
his soldiers to let the
enemy go, but Almighty
Allah in the Qur ’an says
if the enemy wants
peace do not just let
them go but escort them
to a place of security.
Which army general in
today ’s day and age, or
rather in the whole of
recorded human history
is ever known to have
given such merciful
instructions? Now will
someone ask Mr. Arun
Shourie
Why did he deliberately not quote verse 6? :P
DotmonKing 2011/05/21 13:24
Once the Sacred Months are past (and they refuse to make peace)... Where did you put the refusal of making peace? You just jumped to kill them. Man should always be careful of these things. For you, i'v noticed it in the past.
Qur'an 9:4 says
If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you and do not violate it nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous.
Qur'an 9:12 says
If they violate their oaths after pledging to keep their covenants, and attack your religion, you may fight the leaders of paganism- you are no longer bound by your covenant with them- that they may refrain.
Qur'an 9:13 says
would you not fight people who violated their peace treatries, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them? GOD is the One you are supposed to fear. If you are believers.
So i ask you all, how does the message say kill if they dont obey or accept islam? According to the last part of kumz posts.
If they refuse
Quote: Kumz: Quran 9:5
when the forbidden months have passed, kill the polytheists [who are at war with you] wherever you find them. Take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and take to prayer regularly and pay the alms then let them go their way. God is forgiving and merciful. (
apparently only if they convert!!)
quran 9:6
if any one of the polytheists seek asylum with you, grant him asylum so that he may hear the word of god (again to convert); then convey him to a place of safety. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge. (lol! So apparently only the prophet's people had knowledge...)
Well... The message is still clear. Kill if they dont obey or dont accept islam.
You're good at onething kumz, obmittin key phrases and statements so as to favour yourself. Thats not righteous, is it? Via character and atitude, we will know the righteous.
when the forbidden months have passed, kill the polytheists [who are at war with you] wherever you find them. Take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and take to prayer regularly and pay the alms then let them go their way. God is forgiving and merciful. (
apparently only if they convert!!)
quran 9:6
if any one of the polytheists seek asylum with you, grant him asylum so that he may hear the word of god (again to convert); then convey him to a place of safety. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge. (lol! So apparently only the prophet's people had knowledge...)
Well... The message is still clear. Kill if they dont obey or dont accept islam.
Once the Sacred Months are past (and they refuse to make peace)... Where did you put the refusal of making peace? You just jumped to kill them. Man should always be careful of these things. For you, i'v noticed it in the past.
Qur'an 9:4 says
If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you and do not violate it nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous.
Qur'an 9:12 says
If they violate their oaths after pledging to keep their covenants, and attack your religion, you may fight the leaders of paganism- you are no longer bound by your covenant with them- that they may refrain.
Qur'an 9:13 says
would you not fight people who violated their peace treatries, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them? GOD is the One you are supposed to fear. If you are believers.
So i ask you all, how does the message say kill if they dont obey or accept islam? According to the last part of kumz posts.
If they refuse
DotmonKing 2011/05/21 13:38
if they refuse to keep peace with you... Peace peace peace is the subject topic, not kill kill kill. How many of you would stand by nd watch his/her neighbour come into ur house and beat up u and ur family without doing anything? Then wait for him to come the next day again? That person must be overly insane.
Allah doesnt order the killing of none muslims except when they start war against you and refuse to uphold peace. When a pagan is in peace with a muslim, Allah says its a must to be in peace and respect that pagan.
Allah says there is no compulsion in religion, its does affect Him if anyone chooses not to follow Him. By His Will, He gave us freewill, by His Will you were created and by His knowledge you'll die.
We call ourselves learned but we prefer reading chapters upside down and halfway then we start laughing when there's nothing amusing, its mad men that laugh like that. Learned and wise people always abstain from such.
Qur'an 9:5 is overly justified by the preceeding and proceeding verses... Qur'an 9:5 is not the only verse in Qur'an chapter 9, there are 127 verses in Qur'an chapter 9. I wont ask, but you all know how many you've read out of those 127.
if they refuse to keep peace with you... Peace peace peace is the subject topic, not kill kill kill. How many of you would stand by nd watch his/her neighbour come into ur house and beat up u and ur family without doing anything? Then wait for him to come the next day again? That person must be overly insane.
Allah doesnt order the killing of none muslims except when they start war against you and refuse to uphold peace. When a pagan is in peace with a muslim, Allah says its a must to be in peace and respect that pagan.
Allah says there is no compulsion in religion, its does affect Him if anyone chooses not to follow Him. By His Will, He gave us freewill, by His Will you were created and by His knowledge you'll die.
We call ourselves learned but we prefer reading chapters upside down and halfway then we start laughing when there's nothing amusing, its mad men that laugh like that. Learned and wise people always abstain from such.
Qur'an 9:5 is overly justified by the preceeding and proceeding verses... Qur'an 9:5 is not the only verse in Qur'an chapter 9, there are 127 verses in Qur'an chapter 9. I wont ask, but you all know how many you've read out of those 127.
Kumz 2011/05/21 15:10
From 9:7-11 alone seems like a brainwash part to make the readers hate these "polytheists".
Quote: DotmonKing: if they refuse to keep peace with you... Peace peace peace is the subject topic, not kill kill kill. How many of you would stand by nd watch his/her neighbour come into ur house and beat up u and ur family without doing anything? Then wait for him to come the next day again? That person must be overly insane.
Allah doesnt order the killing of none muslims except when they start war against you and refuse to uphold peace. When a pagan is in peace with a muslim, Allah says its a must to be in peace and respect that pagan.
Allah says there is no compulsion in religion, its does affect Him if anyone chooses not to follow Him. By His Will, He gave us freewill, by His Will you were created and by His knowledge you'll die.
We call ourselves learned but we prefer reading chapters upside down and halfway then we start laughing when there's nothing amusing, its mad men that laugh like that. Learned and wise people always abstain from such.
Qur'an 9:5 is overly justified by the preceeding and proceeding verses... Qur'an 9:5 is not the only verse in Qur'an chapter 9, there are 127 verses in Qur'an chapter 9. I wont ask, but you all know how many you've read out of those 127.
To begin with, according to the quran I have, there are 129 verses in chapter 9. And yes, I've read it all. Allah doesnt order the killing of none muslims except when they start war against you and refuse to uphold peace. When a pagan is in peace with a muslim, Allah says its a must to be in peace and respect that pagan.
Allah says there is no compulsion in religion, its does affect Him if anyone chooses not to follow Him. By His Will, He gave us freewill, by His Will you were created and by His knowledge you'll die.
We call ourselves learned but we prefer reading chapters upside down and halfway then we start laughing when there's nothing amusing, its mad men that laugh like that. Learned and wise people always abstain from such.
Qur'an 9:5 is overly justified by the preceeding and proceeding verses... Qur'an 9:5 is not the only verse in Qur'an chapter 9, there are 127 verses in Qur'an chapter 9. I wont ask, but you all know how many you've read out of those 127.
From 9:7-11 alone seems like a brainwash part to make the readers hate these "polytheists".
Kumz 2011/05/21 17:13
Quote: DotmonKing: How many of you would stand by nd watch his/her neighbour come into ur house and beat up u and ur family without doing anything? Then wait for him to come the next day again? That person must be overly insane.
I totally agree!! Which is probably why the Quraish or what ever tribe tried to keep Muhammad's muslim army out of Mecca. Mecca was their home, which they obviously didn't want Muhammad and others taking over. And what did Muhammad do after winning that war? He banned all non muslims from entering Mecca. Which in other words mean... If the non believers who called Mecca home wanted stay on, they'd have to convert
Kumz 2011/05/21 17:27
Come to think of it, most of chapter 9 is like a concrete foundation to building hatred towards non Muslims. Now THAT's insanity!
"The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of god", and the Christians say, "the messiah is the son of god". These are but their baseless utterances. They imitate the assertions made in earlier times by those who deny the truth. May god destroy them! How far astray they have been led!
Quran 9:30
Quote: DotmonKing: You're good at onething kumz, obmittin key phrases and statements so as to favour yourself. Thats not righteous, is it? Via character and atitude, we will know the righteous.
Once the Sacred Months are past (and they refuse to make peace)... Where did you put the refusal of making peace? You just jumped to kill them. Man should always be careful of these things. For you, i'v noticed it in the past.
Qur'an 9:4 says
If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you and do not violate it nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous.
Qur'an 9:12 says
If they violate their oaths after pledging to keep their covenants, and attack your religion, you may fight the leaders of paganism- you are no longer bound by your covenant with them- that they may refrain.
Qur'an 9:13 says
would you not fight people who violated their peace treatries, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them? GOD is the One you are supposed to fear. If you are believers.
So i ask you all, how does the message say kill if they dont obey or accept islam? According to the last part of kumz posts.
If they refuse
fyi, I didn't omit any part of the 9:5 or any other verses. I wrote here EXACTLY what's written in my version of the quran. Once the Sacred Months are past (and they refuse to make peace)... Where did you put the refusal of making peace? You just jumped to kill them. Man should always be careful of these things. For you, i'v noticed it in the past.
Qur'an 9:4 says
If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you and do not violate it nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous.
Qur'an 9:12 says
If they violate their oaths after pledging to keep their covenants, and attack your religion, you may fight the leaders of paganism- you are no longer bound by your covenant with them- that they may refrain.
Qur'an 9:13 says
would you not fight people who violated their peace treatries, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them? GOD is the One you are supposed to fear. If you are believers.
So i ask you all, how does the message say kill if they dont obey or accept islam? According to the last part of kumz posts.
If they refuse
Come to think of it, most of chapter 9 is like a concrete foundation to building hatred towards non Muslims. Now THAT's insanity!
"The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of god", and the Christians say, "the messiah is the son of god". These are but their baseless utterances. They imitate the assertions made in earlier times by those who deny the truth. May god destroy them! How far astray they have been led!
Quran 9:30
Kumz 2011/05/22 10:19
So since you said "peace peace peace is the subject topi, not kill kill kill", I read through chapter 9, again. And guess what! The word "peace" was not mentioned even once (in the copy I have). However, the word "kill" was mentioned twice (9:5 and 9:111). Also the word "fight" was mentioned 6 times (9:13, 9:14, 9:29, 9:36, 9:111 and 9:123).
"god has bought from the believers their lives and their wealth in return for the garden(heaven). They fight for the cause of god and they kill and are killed. It is a promise binding on him in the Torah, gospel and quran, and who is truer to his promise than god? Rejoice then in the bargain you have made. That is the supreme achievement."
quran 9:111
So since you said "peace peace peace is the subject topi, not kill kill kill", I read through chapter 9, again. And guess what! The word "peace" was not mentioned even once (in the copy I have). However, the word "kill" was mentioned twice (9:5 and 9:111). Also the word "fight" was mentioned 6 times (9:13, 9:14, 9:29, 9:36, 9:111 and 9:123).
"god has bought from the believers their lives and their wealth in return for the garden(heaven). They fight for the cause of god and they kill and are killed. It is a promise binding on him in the Torah, gospel and quran, and who is truer to his promise than god? Rejoice then in the bargain you have made. That is the supreme achievement."
quran 9:111
haris 2011/05/24 21:05
Quote: Abhishek: Dude, really... nothing can justify that verse. Killing people just because they belongs to other religion is totally insane. 
Islam doesnt teach this. Infact Islam asks muslims to respect othr religions n their scriputures. And argue wid non muslims in best ways possible to convey the msg of Islam. Ur post is a common misconception..
Zeast 2011/05/27 09:42
Quote: Kumz: So since you said "peace peace peace is the subject topi, not kill kill kill", I read through chapter 9, again. And guess what! The word "peace" was not mentioned even once (in the copy I have). However, the word "kill" was mentioned twice (9:5 and 9:111). Also the word "fight" was mentioned 6 times (9:13, 9:14, 9:29, 9:36, 9:111 and 9:123).
"god has bought from the believers their lives and their wealth in return for the garden(heaven). They fight for the cause of god and they kill and are killed. It is a promise binding on him in the Torah, gospel and quran, and who is truer to his promise than god? Rejoice then in the bargain you have made. That is the supreme achievement."
quran 9:111
. . . "god has bought from the believers their lives and their wealth in return for the garden(heaven). They fight for the cause of god and they kill and are killed. It is a promise binding on him in the Torah, gospel and quran, and who is truer to his promise than god? Rejoice then in the bargain you have made. That is the supreme achievement."
quran 9:111
DotmonKing 2011/05/28 09:49
Yup whats wrong with such phrase 'may God destroy those who spread falsehood'? Spreadin of falsehood, slightly misinterpreting the scriptures which none would notice is the reason why there is bloodshed today. Not only the unbelievers who do that should Allah destroy, He should equally destroy those muslims who spread falsehood too cos they're no brother of ours.
Quote: Kumz: fyi, I didn't omit any part of the 9:5 or any other verses. I wrote here EXACTLY what's written in my version of the quran. Come to think of it, most of chapter 9 is like a concrete foundation to building hatred towards non Muslims. Now THAT's insanity!
"The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of god", and the Christians say, "the messiah is the son of god". These are but their baseless utterances. They imitate the assertions made in earlier times by those who deny the truth. May god destroy them! How far astray they have been led!
Quran 9:30
whats fyi? Here in this forum, We all know ourselves kumz, the character and traits we all possess. Those we can trust and those we cant that what they claim to read is what they claim to write, you're not one of those whom i trust in that aspect.
Come to think of it, most of chapter 9 is like a concrete foundation to building hatred towards non Muslims. Now THAT's insanity!
"The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of god", and the Christians say, "the messiah is the son of god". These are but their baseless utterances. They imitate the assertions made in earlier times by those who deny the truth. May god destroy them! How far astray they have been led!
Quran 9:30
Yup whats wrong with such phrase 'may God destroy those who spread falsehood'? Spreadin of falsehood, slightly misinterpreting the scriptures which none would notice is the reason why there is bloodshed today. Not only the unbelievers who do that should Allah destroy, He should equally destroy those muslims who spread falsehood too cos they're no brother of ours.
Kumz 2011/05/28 16:32
F- for
Y- your
I- information
Quote: DotmonKing: whats fyi? Here in this forum, We all know ourselves kumz, the character and traits we all possess. Those we can trust and those we cant that what they claim to read is what they claim to write, you're not one of those whom i trust in that aspect.
lol! Why dont you get the same version of the quran translated by Maulana Wahiduddin Khan, Edited by Farida Khanam published by goodword books to find out yourself? Or... Maybe google might help since I've Given here all info abt it. You'll see who's trying to mislead whom.
F- for
Y- your
I- information
Quote: DotmonKing: Yup whats wrong with such phrase 'may God destroy those who spread falsehood'? Spreadin of falsehood, slightly misinterpreting the scriptures which none would notice is the reason why there is bloodshed today. Not only the unbelievers who do that should Allah destroy, He should equally destroy those muslims who spread falsehood too cos they're no brother of ours.
What's wrong with that phrase??? God himself says curse his own creation! That's what's wrong! And I see from the previous post of some dude, you guys actually like the chapter nine 111. Yup. Kill and be killed for god. Must be fun.
TheOne 2012/10/07 11:15
I posted recently wat he is saying in this topic,mere diff. is i ddnt praise allaha after that,bt MY topic's closed? Y
I posted recently wat he is saying in this topic,mere diff. is i ddnt praise allaha after that,bt MY topic's closed? Y
TheOne 2012/10/07 11:18
& There's no need2reply cos in this topic,the gentleman has referred allaha as an army general. Well,this explains all.
& There's no need2reply cos in this topic,the gentleman has referred allaha as an army general. Well,this explains all.
Replies: 55
#78 Faith/Beliefs
Share your views and beliefs on religion, theology, culture and matters of faith.