"Response to Qur'an 9:5" by Musafir 2010/01/13 11:03
My one friend @ demon overlord quoted QUR'AN 9:5 but he forgot to quote QURAN 9:6 in this topic topic id: 2062830 :P
“… Fight and slay the Mushrik Kafir wherever you find them …†(Al Qur’an 9:5) :)
If you read the Qur’an,
this verse exists but it is
quoted out of context
by Arun Shourie.
The first few verses of
Surah Tawbah before
verse 5 speak about the
peace treaty between
the Muslims and
Muskhriks (polytheists)
of Makkah. This peace
treaty was unilaterally
broken by the Mushriks
of Makkah. In verse no.
5 Allah (swt) gives them
an ultimatum to put
things straight in four
months ’ time, or else
face a declaration of
war. It is for the
battlefield that Allah
says “fight and slay the
Mushriks (i.e. the
enemies from Makkah)
wherever you find them
and seize them,
beleaguer them, and lie
in wait for them in every
stratagem of warâ€.
This verse is revealed
and instructs the Muslims
to fight in the battlefield
and kill the enemy
wherever you find them.
But natural, any army
general to boost up the
morale of the soldiers
and to encourage them
will say “Don’t get
scared, fight and kill the
enemies, wherever you
find them in the
battlefield. Arun Shourie
in his book ‘The World of
Fatwas’ after quoting
Surah Tawbah chapter 9
verse 5 jumps to verse
7. Any logical person will
realize that verse 6 has
the reply to his
allegation.
Surah Tawbah chapter 9 verse 6 says:
:)
“If any amongst the Mushriks (i.e. the enemies)
ask thee for asylum, grant it to him so that
he may hear the word of Allah and then
escort him to where he can be secure â€. (Al Qur’an 9:6)
:)
Today the most merciful
army general may tell
his soldiers to let the
enemy go, but Almighty
Allah in the Qur ’an says
if the enemy wants
peace do not just let
them go but escort them
to a place of security.
Which army general in
today ’s day and age, or
rather in the whole of
recorded human history
is ever known to have
given such merciful
instructions? Now will
someone ask Mr. Arun
Shourie
Why did he deliberately not quote verse 6? :P
My one friend @ demon overlord quoted QUR'AN 9:5 but he forgot to quote QURAN 9:6 in this topic topic id: 2062830 :P
“… Fight and slay the Mushrik Kafir wherever you find them …†(Al Qur’an 9:5) :)
If you read the Qur’an,
this verse exists but it is
quoted out of context
by Arun Shourie.
The first few verses of
Surah Tawbah before
verse 5 speak about the
peace treaty between
the Muslims and
Muskhriks (polytheists)
of Makkah. This peace
treaty was unilaterally
broken by the Mushriks
of Makkah. In verse no.
5 Allah (swt) gives them
an ultimatum to put
things straight in four
months ’ time, or else
face a declaration of
war. It is for the
battlefield that Allah
says “fight and slay the
Mushriks (i.e. the
enemies from Makkah)
wherever you find them
and seize them,
beleaguer them, and lie
in wait for them in every
stratagem of warâ€.
This verse is revealed
and instructs the Muslims
to fight in the battlefield
and kill the enemy
wherever you find them.
But natural, any army
general to boost up the
morale of the soldiers
and to encourage them
will say “Don’t get
scared, fight and kill the
enemies, wherever you
find them in the
battlefield. Arun Shourie
in his book ‘The World of
Fatwas’ after quoting
Surah Tawbah chapter 9
verse 5 jumps to verse
7. Any logical person will
realize that verse 6 has
the reply to his
allegation.
Surah Tawbah chapter 9 verse 6 says:
:)
“If any amongst the Mushriks (i.e. the enemies)
ask thee for asylum, grant it to him so that
he may hear the word of Allah and then
escort him to where he can be secure â€. (Al Qur’an 9:6)
:)
Today the most merciful
army general may tell
his soldiers to let the
enemy go, but Almighty
Allah in the Qur ’an says
if the enemy wants
peace do not just let
them go but escort them
to a place of security.
Which army general in
today ’s day and age, or
rather in the whole of
recorded human history
is ever known to have
given such merciful
instructions? Now will
someone ask Mr. Arun
Shourie
Why did he deliberately not quote verse 6? :P
AL-JAWWAD_1 2010/01/15 19:48
Quote: Sirajkhan: he is shaitan nd shaitan's never understands
on the day of judgement
AL-JAWWAD_1 2010/01/15 19:50
Quote: SATAN: Oh he understands very well..its the religion of violence ..look around the world...you see it ...
I have nothing more to add!
Did you read Qur'an anyway who blame others are bigger criminals them self.
I have nothing more to add!
AL-JAWWAD_1 2010/01/15 20:03
"..Take not life, which Allah hath
made sacred, except by way of
justice and law: thus does He
command you, that ye may
learn wisdom." (al-An'am 6:151)
and Allah says in the Qur'an:
وَلاَ تَقْتÙÙ„Ùوا النَّÙْسَ الَّتÙÙŠ Øَرَّمَ
اللَّه٠إÙلاَّ بÙالْØَقّ٠وَمَنْ Ù‚ÙتÙÙ„ÙŽ
مَظْلÙومًا Ùَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا Ù„ÙÙˆÙŽÙ„ÙيّÙÙ‡Ù
سÙلْطَانًا Ùَلاَ ÙŠÙسْرÙÙÙ’ ÙÙÙŠ الْقَتْلÙ
Ø¥Ùنَّه٠كَانَ مَنصÙورًا
"Nor take life - which Allah has
made sacred - except for just
cause. And if anyone is slain
wrongfully, We have given his
heir authority (to demand Qisas
or to forgive): but let him not
exceed bounds in the matter of
taking life; for he is helped (by
the law)" (al-Isra' 17:33)
According to the Qur'an, killing any
person without a just cause is as big
a sin as killing the whole humanity
and saving the life of one person is
as good deed as saving the whole
humanity.
Quote: SATAN: its the religion of violence
"..Take not life, which Allah hath
made sacred, except by way of
justice and law: thus does He
command you, that ye may
learn wisdom." (al-An'am 6:151)
and Allah says in the Qur'an:
وَلاَ تَقْتÙÙ„Ùوا النَّÙْسَ الَّتÙÙŠ Øَرَّمَ
اللَّه٠إÙلاَّ بÙالْØَقّ٠وَمَنْ Ù‚ÙتÙÙ„ÙŽ
مَظْلÙومًا Ùَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا Ù„ÙÙˆÙŽÙ„ÙيّÙÙ‡Ù
سÙلْطَانًا Ùَلاَ ÙŠÙسْرÙÙÙ’ ÙÙÙŠ الْقَتْلÙ
Ø¥Ùنَّه٠كَانَ مَنصÙورًا
"Nor take life - which Allah has
made sacred - except for just
cause. And if anyone is slain
wrongfully, We have given his
heir authority (to demand Qisas
or to forgive): but let him not
exceed bounds in the matter of
taking life; for he is helped (by
the law)" (al-Isra' 17:33)
According to the Qur'an, killing any
person without a just cause is as big
a sin as killing the whole humanity
and saving the life of one person is
as good deed as saving the whole
humanity.
look ar0und
jaQui 2011/05/17 17:40
d0nt u understand that PEACE is just a W0RD they d0nt understand
Quote: -DeMoN_OvErLoRd-: Oh he understands very well..its the religion of violence ..look around the world...you see it ... I have nothing more to add!
I have nothing more to add!d0nt u understand that PEACE is just a W0RD they d0nt understand
jaQui 2011/05/15 01:21
Quote: AL-JAWWAD_1: Did you read Qur'an anyway who blame others are bigger criminals them self.
im happy t0 c dis c0z i've seen many muslim ppl wh0 put d blame on oda ppl t0 make demself inn0cent and judge ppl as if they are God. I have the evidence in f0rums and at my inb0x. Say n0 m0re
Kumz 2011/05/21 17:27
Come to think of it, most of chapter 9 is like a concrete foundation to building hatred towards non Muslims. Now THAT's insanity!
"The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of god", and the Christians say, "the messiah is the son of god". These are but their baseless utterances. They imitate the assertions made in earlier times by those who deny the truth. May god destroy them! How far astray they have been led!
Quran 9:30
Quote: DotmonKing: You're good at onething kumz, obmittin key phrases and statements so as to favour yourself. Thats not righteous, is it? Via character and atitude, we will know the righteous.
Once the Sacred Months are past (and they refuse to make peace)... Where did you put the refusal of making peace? You just jumped to kill them. Man should always be careful of these things. For you, i'v noticed it in the past.
Qur'an 9:4 says
If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you and do not violate it nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous.
Qur'an 9:12 says
If they violate their oaths after pledging to keep their covenants, and attack your religion, you may fight the leaders of paganism- you are no longer bound by your covenant with them- that they may refrain.
Qur'an 9:13 says
would you not fight people who violated their peace treatries, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them? GOD is the One you are supposed to fear. If you are believers.
So i ask you all, how does the message say kill if they dont obey or accept islam? According to the last part of kumz posts.
If they refuse
fyi, I didn't omit any part of the 9:5 or any other verses. I wrote here EXACTLY what's written in my version of the quran. Once the Sacred Months are past (and they refuse to make peace)... Where did you put the refusal of making peace? You just jumped to kill them. Man should always be careful of these things. For you, i'v noticed it in the past.
Qur'an 9:4 says
If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you and do not violate it nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous.
Qur'an 9:12 says
If they violate their oaths after pledging to keep their covenants, and attack your religion, you may fight the leaders of paganism- you are no longer bound by your covenant with them- that they may refrain.
Qur'an 9:13 says
would you not fight people who violated their peace treatries, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them? GOD is the One you are supposed to fear. If you are believers.
So i ask you all, how does the message say kill if they dont obey or accept islam? According to the last part of kumz posts.
If they refuse
Come to think of it, most of chapter 9 is like a concrete foundation to building hatred towards non Muslims. Now THAT's insanity!
"The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of god", and the Christians say, "the messiah is the son of god". These are but their baseless utterances. They imitate the assertions made in earlier times by those who deny the truth. May god destroy them! How far astray they have been led!
Quran 9:30
Kumz 2011/05/21 17:13
Quote: DotmonKing: How many of you would stand by nd watch his/her neighbour come into ur house and beat up u and ur family without doing anything? Then wait for him to come the next day again? That person must be overly insane.
I totally agree!! Which is probably why the Quraish or what ever tribe tried to keep Muhammad's muslim army out of Mecca. Mecca was their home, which they obviously didn't want Muhammad and others taking over. And what did Muhammad do after winning that war? He banned all non muslims from entering Mecca. Which in other words mean... If the non believers who called Mecca home wanted stay on, they'd have to convert
haris 2011/05/24 21:05
Quote: Abhishek: Dude, really... nothing can justify that verse. Killing people just because they belongs to other religion is totally insane.
Islam doesnt teach this. Infact Islam asks muslims to respect othr religions n their scriputures. And argue wid non muslims in best ways possible to convey the msg of Islam. Ur post is a common misconception..
Kumz 2011/05/21 15:10
From 9:7-11 alone seems like a brainwash part to make the readers hate these "polytheists".
Quote: DotmonKing: if they refuse to keep peace with you... Peace peace peace is the subject topic, not kill kill kill. How many of you would stand by nd watch his/her neighbour come into ur house and beat up u and ur family without doing anything? Then wait for him to come the next day again? That person must be overly insane.
Allah doesnt order the killing of none muslims except when they start war against you and refuse to uphold peace. When a pagan is in peace with a muslim, Allah says its a must to be in peace and respect that pagan.
Allah says there is no compulsion in religion, its does affect Him if anyone chooses not to follow Him. By His Will, He gave us freewill, by His Will you were created and by His knowledge you'll die.
We call ourselves learned but we prefer reading chapters upside down and halfway then we start laughing when there's nothing amusing, its mad men that laugh like that. Learned and wise people always abstain from such.
Qur'an 9:5 is overly justified by the preceeding and proceeding verses... Qur'an 9:5 is not the only verse in Qur'an chapter 9, there are 127 verses in Qur'an chapter 9. I wont ask, but you all know how many you've read out of those 127.
To begin with, according to the quran I have, there are 129 verses in chapter 9. And yes, I've read it all. Allah doesnt order the killing of none muslims except when they start war against you and refuse to uphold peace. When a pagan is in peace with a muslim, Allah says its a must to be in peace and respect that pagan.
Allah says there is no compulsion in religion, its does affect Him if anyone chooses not to follow Him. By His Will, He gave us freewill, by His Will you were created and by His knowledge you'll die.
We call ourselves learned but we prefer reading chapters upside down and halfway then we start laughing when there's nothing amusing, its mad men that laugh like that. Learned and wise people always abstain from such.
Qur'an 9:5 is overly justified by the preceeding and proceeding verses... Qur'an 9:5 is not the only verse in Qur'an chapter 9, there are 127 verses in Qur'an chapter 9. I wont ask, but you all know how many you've read out of those 127.
From 9:7-11 alone seems like a brainwash part to make the readers hate these "polytheists".
Kumz 2011/05/14 08:28
Quran 9:5
when the forbidden months have passed, kill the polytheists [who are at war with you] wherever you find them. Take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and take to prayer regularly and pay the alms then let them go their way. God is forgiving and merciful. (
apparently only if they convert!!)
quran 9:6
if any one of the polytheists seek asylum with you, grant him asylum so that he may hear the word of god (again to convert); then convey him to a place of safety. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge. (lol! So apparently only the prophet's people had knowledge...)
Well... The message is still clear. Kill if they dont obey or dont accept islam.
Quran 9:5
when the forbidden months have passed, kill the polytheists [who are at war with you] wherever you find them. Take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and take to prayer regularly and pay the alms then let them go their way. God is forgiving and merciful. (
apparently only if they convert!!)
quran 9:6
if any one of the polytheists seek asylum with you, grant him asylum so that he may hear the word of god (again to convert); then convey him to a place of safety. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge. (lol! So apparently only the prophet's people had knowledge...)
Well... The message is still clear. Kill if they dont obey or dont accept islam.
Kumz 2011/05/14 08:42
Quote: AL-JAWWAD_1:
"..Take not life, which Allah hath
made sacred, except by way of
justice and law: thus does He
command you, that ye may
learn wisdom." (al-An'am 6:151)
and Allah says in the Qur'an:
وَلاَ تَقْتÙÙ„Ùوا النَّÙْسَ الَّتÙÙŠ Øَرَّمَ
اللَّه٠إÙلاَّ بÙالْØَقّ٠وَمَنْ Ù‚ÙتÙÙ„ÙŽ
مَظْلÙومًا Ùَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا Ù„ÙÙˆÙŽÙ„ÙيّÙÙ‡Ù
سÙلْطَانًا Ùَلاَ ÙŠÙسْرÙÙÙ’ ÙÙÙŠ الْقَتْلÙ
Ø¥Ùنَّه٠كَانَ مَنصÙورًا
"Nor take life - which Allah has
made sacred - except for just
cause. And if anyone is slain
wrongfully, We have given his
heir authority (to demand Qisas
or to forgive): but let him not
exceed bounds in the matter of
taking life; for he is helped (by
the law)" (al-Isra' 17:33)
According to the Qur'an, killing any
person without a just cause is as big
a sin as killing the whole humanity
and saving the life of one person is
as good deed as saving the whole
humanity.
Now let me see... Where have I read that qisas doesn't work the same way if a muslim kills a non muslim...? It said that the life of a Jew or Christian is worth 1 third of that of a muslim and the life of whoever else is worth 1 fifteeeeeeeeeeeenth of that of a muslim. Discrimination, is it?
"..Take not life, which Allah hath
made sacred, except by way of
justice and law: thus does He
command you, that ye may
learn wisdom." (al-An'am 6:151)
and Allah says in the Qur'an:
وَلاَ تَقْتÙÙ„Ùوا النَّÙْسَ الَّتÙÙŠ Øَرَّمَ
اللَّه٠إÙلاَّ بÙالْØَقّ٠وَمَنْ Ù‚ÙتÙÙ„ÙŽ
مَظْلÙومًا Ùَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا Ù„ÙÙˆÙŽÙ„ÙيّÙÙ‡Ù
سÙلْطَانًا Ùَلاَ ÙŠÙسْرÙÙÙ’ ÙÙÙŠ الْقَتْلÙ
Ø¥Ùنَّه٠كَانَ مَنصÙورًا
"Nor take life - which Allah has
made sacred - except for just
cause. And if anyone is slain
wrongfully, We have given his
heir authority (to demand Qisas
or to forgive): but let him not
exceed bounds in the matter of
taking life; for he is helped (by
the law)" (al-Isra' 17:33)
According to the Qur'an, killing any
person without a just cause is as big
a sin as killing the whole humanity
and saving the life of one person is
as good deed as saving the whole
humanity.
#78 Faith/Beliefs
Share your views and beliefs on religion, theology, culture and matters of faith.
Share your views and beliefs on religion, theology, culture and matters of faith.